Jump to content

MacPhail cites Tex offer as proof the Orioles will spend money

JTrea81

By JTrea81
in Orioles Talk

Recommended Posts

El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

Posted
Posted
Even though I just said he should have upped the offer, there is something to be said about how to negotiate with Boras. You don't want to get tricked into offering way more than anyone else. So making a solid offer and saying you're flexible with it isn't a poor way to deal with Boras imo.

Either way, as I've said before, I don't think AM's negotiating tactics kept us from getting Tex, AM's limit did.

I don't think AM had reached his limit at 7/140-150. I believe, and please don't laugh too much, there was some validity to the infamous WOW offer. Just how much it would be, who knows? But had Tex come back to us and expressed a desire to play for his home town team, I believe AM would have made his best offer. It probably would have been in the neighborhood of the MFY's offer, but that is just my guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 220
  • Created
  • Last Reply
JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I don't think AM had reached his limit at 7/140-150. I believe, and please don't laugh to much, there was some validity to the infamous WOW offer. Just how much it would be, who knows? But had Tex come back to us and expressed a desire to play for his home town team, I believe AM would have made his best offer. It probably would have been in the neighborhood of the MFY's offer, but that is just my guess.

It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

Posted
Posted
It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

AM knew how much he could spend. He also knew that if Tex didn't want to play in B'more, it wouldn't be enough. So it only made sense to make the offer, if there was some serious home town interest. It became clear that there wasn't, so it made sense not to play Boras' game.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
twoBshorty Major Leaguer

twoBshorty

Posted
Posted
It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

And what would that have gotten him? Nothing. Boston did the whole wine-and-dine thing with the business of flying to his house and whatnot. Epstein has to be one of the best in the game at that. What did it achieve? Teixeira singled him out for praise in a newspaper interview after signing with the Yankees. Woo-hoo. Too bad MacPhail didn't get that!

I can't believe we're still rehashing all this stuff a year later. Maybe we should start lighting yahrtzeit candles on the anniversary?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MrOrange82 Hangout Grand Counsel

MrOrange82

Posted
Posted
And what would that have gotten him? Nothing. Boston did the whole wine-and-dine thing with the business of flying to his house and whatnot. Epstein has to be one of the best in the game at that. What did it achieve? Teixeira singled him out for praise in a newspaper interview after signing with the Yankees. Woo-hoo. Too bad MacPhail didn't get that!

I can't believe we're still rehashing all this stuff a year later. Maybe we should start lighting yahrtzeit candles on the anniversary?

There's something to be said for driving the price up for your competition, even if you don't think you can "win."

If the Orioles had made an offer that significantly trumped that of the Yankees (not saying such an offer would have been fiscally responsible or successful...), Tex would've at least had a decent amount of union pressure coming down on him to set the market-bar high. As it happened, the Orioles weren't even in the ballpark when it came to courting Tex, and the front office chalked it up to "Tex not really wanting to play in Baltimore. We gave it a shot, oh well."

A WOW offer that isn't within 40 million dollars of the winning offer isn't a WOW offer, IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mashed Potatoes Major Leaguer Rising Star

Mashed Potatoes

Posted
Posted
It's not up to Tex to pursue the Orioles, it was up to the Orioles to pursue Tex. That goes for any premium FA. Passive pursuits do not work for premium FAs.

Tex did not have the Orioles at the top of his list. It was up to MacPhail to convince him to play for Baltimore and he didn't make a good enough effort to do that. Pursuing FAs is his job. They aren't going to just call MacPhail up and say "we want to play for the Orioles." It doesn't work that way.

I'm disappointed that you chose not to respond to my posts in this thread, not surprised, but disappointed still.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

Posted
  • Author
Posted
I'm going to attempt to show in this post how often you take a tiny bit of what happened, and proceed to add an enormous amount of your own story to it.

What happened: MacPhail offered 7 years 140+ million.

What you added: MacPhail had an "expectation" that Tex would accept his offer ahead of other more lucrative offers with more competitive teams.

No where did MacPhail say that he expected Tex to sign here when all of the final offers were made given their varying amounts. In fact it's quite preposterous for anyone to expect a player to choose less money, less years, and a worse team over the alternative. You would have to be a complete idiot to expect that, but it's implicit in your assumption.

It was reported all along the Orioles were hoping Tex would take a hometown discount to sign. The fact that MacPhail never upped our offer shows that he didn't understand the market for Teixiera. And the fact that he kept saying they were in it even though they never raised the offer just goes to prove that. You can't be in the race with the lowest offer, so it was foolish to try to convince the fans that the Orioles were still in it all that time.

What happened: MacPhail made an offer and Tex did not sign here.

What you added: MacPhail thought his offer was good enough to get Tex and he does not know how to properly pursue free agents.

Do you think that MacPhail is unaware of the fact that if he offered more money it would have increased his chances of landing Tex? Is that ever not the case? Can you possibly imagine a GM not understanding this?

Why did he never raise the offer?

Do you have any evidence that the manner in which he communicated with Tex and his agent was ineffective compared to how other teams communicated with Tex? Do you have any evidence that the way in which he pursued Tex played a larger role in Tex not signing here than size of contract, length of contract, and competitiveness of the major league team?

Again, MacPhail had a threshold he was not willing to cross. We can argue about whether that threshold is legitimate or not given the state of our team in terms of talent and finances, but then we're dealing with a lot of stuff we as fans have no access to and know nothing about.

The notion that MacPhail does not understand that free agents look for the biggest contract is completely absurd and without basis.

Again, why did he never raise the offer? And why has he never landed a premium FA?

What happened: Other teams offered more money than the Orioles.

What you added: MacPhail thought that the true value of Tex was lower than what other teams saw his true value to be. MacPhail thought that the Orioles needed Tex but lacked the will to do whatever it took to get Tex.

There is no evidence that MacPhail thought Tex offered less value than other teams. There is no evidence that MacPhail thought the Orioles needed Tex. These were things you assumed and then you held MacPhail responsible for your assumptions that he did not share.

I could bring in the argument about money meaning different things for different organizations given their budget but you've seen that before. What I would like to point out is that you're engaging in an argument with your made up beliefs about MacPhail and not with MacPhail's actual beliefs.

Furthermore, the fact that you're holding MacPhail responsible for things he never said is dishonest.

MacPhail said all along after he made the offer that was lower than all the other teams that he thought they were still in it despite never raising his offer.

Had he raised the offer to at least 8/160 after the other teams had their offers known, then you might have a point. But how can you say you are still in the race when you have the lowest offer on the table?

It just shows that he underestimated how aggressive he'd have to be in his pursuit of Teixeira IMO. He thought Tex wanted to play for the Orioles bad enough so he'd be willing to take a discount when it was pretty obvious with him being a Boras client he was going to go where he could either win or was paid the most money, and the Orioles offered neither of those two things.

MacPhail has also said he won't get into a bidding war with "the big boys." And Teixeira is just a perfect example IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cmcgarvey Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

cmcgarvey

Posted
Posted
Goodness, I tried catching up on this thread but just felt like repeatedly bashing my head against my desk instead. I mean, that's what reading it felt like.

And if I ruled the world TonySoprano would be in charge of the JFK investigation, Roswell and finding Hoffa's body.

Yeah...

Can someone please remind me that I haven't Quantum Leaped back a year to stop Teixeira from signing with the Yankees?

(Trust me, this would be a lot funnier if my user name was Sam Beckett.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TonySoprano Hangout Grand Counsel

TonySoprano

Posted
Posted
Goodness, I tried catching up on this thread but just felt like repeatedly bashing my head against my desk instead. I mean, that's what reading it felt like.

And if I ruled the world TonySoprano would be in charge of the JFK investigation, Roswell and finding Hoffa's body.

If you ruled the world, I'd get on one of those Roswell ships and find a better place. Fuhgeddaboudit.:D

Psst Hoffa and JFK are connected. It's a mystery wrapped in a riddle inside an enigma

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Posts

    • Frobby
      Shout out to Pinstripe Alley

      By Frobby · Posted

      I think half of Fangraphs’ staff over the years came from Lookout Landing.   I rarely read other teams’ sites, but I agree Pinstripe Alley is one of the best Yankee sites.     
    • Frobby
      One-run games

      By Frobby · Posted

      For one thing, they don’t have Bautista shutting things down in the 9th inning or extra innings.   Second, 30-16 just doesn’t happen every year.  I’m actually pretty encouraged that the O’s have played .650 baseball without winning a disproportionate number of close games.    
    • Frobby
      Moises Chace 2024

      By Frobby · Posted

      Four more shutout innings for Chace last night, 2 hits, 3 walks, 6 strikeouts.   His ERA is 0.91, WHiP 1.21, K/9 12.7.   The only blemish is his 5.2 BB/9.   He’s pitched 8 games and has only allowed runs in two of them.   Yesterday he threw 45 of 68 pitches for strikes.  For some reason the O’s kind of have him under wraps, as he’s only been allowed to exceed 70 pitches twice, back in April.  He’s also been kept to four inning outings.  They’re clearly being very careful with the 20-year old (turns 21 in three weeks).  In fairness, they did need to shut him down for a month late last summer, so I’m guessing it’s more season load management than game-by-game decisions.   In any event, it’s been a promising campaign for Chace.    
    • Hallas
      Cal thinks Holiday moved to fast through the system

      By Hallas · Posted

      I mean, I don't want to denigrate your experience, but I think you're underestimating the power potential of elite athletes.  The leg strength required to send a grown man 20 mph from a dead stop is the same leg strength required to do a deadlift, or do a squat.  Can your buddy run a 4.5 40?
    • Uli2001
      One-run games

      By Uli2001 · Posted

      The Orioles were 30-16 in one-run games in 2023. They are 6-6 this year so far. Orioles magic hasn’t been there this year, at least so far. What changed?
    • Frobby
      Orioles Sign Daniel Johnson to mil contract (tea leaves?)

      By Frobby · Posted

      I can’t even believe the grasping of straws going on here.  Why don’t we just bring up every guy at Norfolk who has an .800+ OPS, since they’re obviously better than their major league counterparts?  Oh wait, everyone at Norfolk has an .800+ OPS! As to Mullins, yes he’s looked awful at the plate for a month, but the O’s are nowhere near the point of regularly benching him or pinch hitting for him in key situations vs. RHP.   You know why?   Because even good players have slumps, and the best way to get them out of it is to keep playing them until they emerge from them.  And Mullins has a long enough track record where the odds of him coming out of this eventually are decent.  Not 100%, but a lot more likely than not.  I mean, the guy had an .859 OPS the first 3 weeks of the season.  That guy didn’t have some instantaneous physical decline that has turned him into the second coming of Chris Davis permanently.  I know it’s frustrating to watch him right now.  I’m as frustrated as anyone.   But every major league team would be doing what the Orioles have been doing, for another 4-6 weeks at a minimum.  
    • Hallas
      Cal thinks Holiday moved to fast through the system

      By Hallas · Posted

      But it doesn't really matter if correlation implies causation, because we can at least infer that people with fast 40 times have a good chance of being able to squat 2.5x their body weight, regardless of whether there is a causative relationship.  And we have verifiable data thay many football players at skill positions are able to squat large amounts of weight that would be out of reach of many other people even given the same amount of training and diet.  So with both if these things in hand we can safely assume that these lifting numbers are achievable for most elite athletes, which Holliday qualifies as.  So I don't think we should be shocked or skeptical that he's able to pull these numbers.    I'd also be shocked if there wasn't a causative relationship between 40 times and lifting heavy.  Lifting large amounts of weight requires powerful muscles in the legs.  Running really fast also requires powerful muscles in the legs.  You can get in the weeds about muscle fiber type but to me if you're good at one, there's a great chance thay you're at least moderately good at the other.

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...